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In the Yemen, a baron country riddled with Islamic extremist and bandits, there was a rash of kidnappings in the nineties, including foreign tourists, usually in the more tribal regions. The problem peaked in 1997 with over 1400 of these incidents, averaging 35 foreign nationals a year. The most infamous incident saw a tour bus of 14 Europeans taken by hardcore Al-Quieda types, brutal and determined to capture the Infidel. If the ransom wasn't paid they were sometimes killed. With what little foreign tourism the country had left by then something had to be done.
The Yemeni government reacted strongly and raided the camp, a bloodbath that saw four of the foreigners killed, amongst the deaths two British. The ring-leader and five kidnappers were publicly hanged on live TV. Since 98 the kidnappings began to fall and by 2001, it was just 8 a year, only two of those foreigners. The death penalty does work and if hardcore jihadist are even afraid of being hung and humiliated in front of their Gods then its time to bring it back in the U.K, the Islamic terror threat here just as potent and now reason enough. How long will it be until we see kidnappings in the U.K and these guys demanding we releases some of the Muslims imprisoned here for political or terror related issues? We need a hardcore deterrent to get hold of the growing number of people on our streets of all races that are killing with impunity as they don't fear our justice system.
(C/O Frank Gardeners book 'Blood & Sand')
I have, perhaps, been rather naive writing here over the extremist Muslim threat in England and given their religion the benefit of the doubt and respect it deserves.But since 911 some of their cultural lifestyle seems to be turning to extremism to deal with the disaffection that many ethnic minorities do seem to feel in Britain. Unfortunately for the commuters of London they have tied that emotion in with the Iraq and Afghanistan atrocities. I'm 100% behind their frustrations over the war in Iraq and believe it was illegal and Blair and Bush should face war crimes trials in The Hague and would love to see them in those iconic red jump-suits. But the Wahabi versions of Islam these kids are being indoctrinated with by mainly Saudi clerics in the British mosques mean they are becoming fearless and death and paradise is more attractive than their lives in a strict and often oppressive
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Bye bye Huntley!
Asian family culture here, rather ironicaly. I dated a very Western Asian girl last year and even she showed empathy to 911.
We Brits tend to tolerate immigrants but struggle to really welcome them here, until of course, they too become Brits by adopting our habits, good or bad. They keep coming here and we get on with it. We keep going there ( Spain and Florida and Sydney) and they get on with it. An Englishman's (or woman's) home is their castle (or castlette) and we tend to shut ourselves away and so let this internal disaffection brew, especially in the Muslim communities, formed just as much by bigoted white folks moving away as Muslims moving in to these areas. But of late I have realized there is a more serious threat from that community now and the realization that the 2006 airport plot was real has turned me away from the respect I once had for their community and the unfair stick they were getting by Blair. With all that honor killing culture thrown into that equation its time to get tough on the value of life in this decaying country. Yes New Labor demonizing Islam to justify the governments oil grab in Iraq and the passing of the 42 day law allowed them to lock up more innocent Muslims to make it look the threat is worse than it is, but with 12% of the British prison population now Muslim (C4s Dispatches Program showed evidence of) it is clearly a culture having problems dealing with the British way of life, how ever xenophobic we may be.
In defense of that I'm sure the life for a white Englishman in a strict Islamic country is just as alienating and difficult at first. Indeed three Brits were sentenced to death in Saudi Arabia six years ago for apparently running an illegal alcohol trade, even though it later transpired to be all made up by the Saudi police to make it appear westerners, and not internal Al-Quieda groups, were causing bombings. Although the 3 guys were released they were beaten to a pulp by the Saudi's. Their idea of the 42 day detention rule isn't the same as ours.
With the news that one-in-five murderers in U.K jails are now commited by foreign nationals (The Observer) from just one sixteenth of the population, you would have to say that the Death penalty here would have the human right lawyers rubbing their hands in glee, as they do in America where the ethnic minority rate as high as 67% on death row (43% Afro American, 17% Hispanic) nationally. It would be a huge cash cow for the lawyers and the appeals process is a real earner. The question is can the nation as a whole tolerate injecting British citizens with a lethal toxin and will it add to social unrest when we see those guys and girls all over the news as their trials approach? In fact does ethnically diverse Britain even want to contemplate how skewed that statistic is. I just don't think the death penalty will work for everyone here, in the sense of the general public agreeing with it.. Some people who kick up a fuss about it will do it for the sake of it. But I personally would love to see our most notorious killers dropped in the Pacific Ocean without a life vest if I was the boss, what ever color they are. If you kill and are unrepentant then it's bye-bye guys. 10% of killers kill twice.
A Libyan national and Dr Shipman hold the record for mass killings in the UK.
In America there's no problem with killing people in prison, President Bush actually increasing the deaths in Texas to help him win the 2000 election campaign. It's a vote winner there and boy does he spark em up come November! 'Dubya' signed a few extra execution orders for his 2004 campaign too. His brother Jeb was the same in Florida, second only to Texas for death row prisoners. The Bush brothers are responsible for one third of all lethal injections every year in the US. But, as you would expect, the murder rate is even higher in those states, hence the death penalty. I don't agree you have lower murder rates in American states without the death penalty.
The penitentiaries are full of black and Hispanic people waiting to be executed because of drug and gang feuds. But the system was very racist in the sixties and seventies, resulting in skewed statistics, a black guy who killed a white guy having a three fold increase chance of going to the chair than the reverse, resulting in those high numbers of African Americans on death row. The brilliant movie 'Hurricane' with the always excellent Denzel Washington really highlighted how corrupt the cops were in racially divided America. I don't expect that to happen in England but once capital punishment becomes political then things change quickly.
Before the extremist Muslim threat and brutal drug trade threat to all British citizens in the UK took hold I didn't see the point of the death penalty. Most people serving life were generally there for crimes of passion and temper, usually bought on by booze, drugs and women, most murders in the wifes kitchen. But now the booming drug trade and the implosion in the Muslim and Caribbean communities are being played out on the streets, the radical increase of child stabbings down to gang and turf wars that ultimately exists because of the drug trade and ethnic tension. If you can make your areas no go for even the police then drugs and crime will flourish. I certainly don't want to see kids being hung because they know no different at that age but anyone carrying a firearm or knife over the age of 18 does know what they are doing and perhaps a few high profile state executions would deter people to arm themselves. Murders in the white community are occasionally drug related but mostly booze and agression related and not about territory and self-esteem.
As I said before the return of the death penalty here (still available for extreme treason in England on appeal to the House of Lords) will only make money for those pesky human rights lawyers and organizations, but we need something more than we have now to stem the ever increasing murder rates. Maybe if the villains see they can lose their lives for the most serious offences then maybe the murder rate would fall. I think the nation as a whole would like to see Ian Huntley test the iffy theory that Doctor Kelly was killed by 29 of those Proximal tablets by repeating the action in his cell, seeing as he wants to top himself so much.
Proble is if Myrha Hyndley can have the likes of Lord Longford trying to spring her because she flirted with the old buffer then why won't important people in the distant future try and let Huntley out because he's a 'reformed character'? What about those celebs helping the alleged killer of little Billy Jo with a tent peg? These extreme killers need to go straight away and I don't see an issue with that. I would also put cop killers in that bracket as the boys in blue line is getting thinner everyday under New Labor, and as they are unarmed they are an easy target for very bad people that probably want the sanctuary of jail to escape a worse fete to themselves.
I think I'd have to echo Hishey's cooment and say that by dishing out such punishment, we are sinking to their level. I believe a prison sentence - and a *proper* sentence in a cell that has no mod cons and no family visits or any of the 'nicey nicey' prisoners seem to get these days - would make people think twice. Murderers and worst usually get punished by their fellow convicts as they (surprising considering they are in prison!) have a strong moral code of what you do and don't do and I think a prisoner having a constant fear of what *could* happen to them any day over the next 25years would be a bigger deterent.
paulpry118 16.08.2010 18:55
I do think we should have capital punishment for murderers of children and serial killers, with the way criminal science has progressed in recent times, there is unlikely to be miscarriages of justice either that or put the criminal in with the familes of those they have harmed and I'm sure they would soon be on the straight and narrow